r/MMORPG•u/Neriakied•4d ago
i am coming from gw2 and wow where i exclusively pvp 99.9% of the time i am on the game unless pve is forced, im talking no dungeons or m+ or raiding and i want to lvl to end as fast as possible, i have heard both sides that xiv pvp is garbage and dead and that its not that bad and has people playing it still, so im not sure where it actually sits as of today... if anyone from the community could chime in with some no bs info i would appreciate it a lot (queue times, time it takes to get pvp geared, avg skill or ranking system)
EDIT: (thx for the replies guys, quick summary of the general points from dms/comments if anyone else comes across this for similar reasons)
• questionable/bad engine and netcode for pvp
• battlepass type reward system for rewards
• solo q only
• short/medium queue times
• simplified rotations and predetermined stats for pvp
9 Upvotes
25
u/Meekin934d ago
FFXIV PVP is absolutely horrid. I'm a pvper and it's just a dread to play any of the pvp modes in FFXIV but you do it for cosmetics and its battle pass type track.
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u/Neriakied4d ago
are the cosmetics rank based or is it like a q enough games to get the set type thing?
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u/AdMiserable37484d ago
It's a mix
- Some Rank based. Previous ranking used to give unique mounts/ pets you can't get anywhere else. Not sure if they still do that as I haven't played Crystal Conflict all that much recently. (https://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/ranking/crystallineconflict/reward/11 )
- A battlepass/ series that gives Trophy Crystals when you play PVP that you can spend on some cosmetics
- A second currency Wolf Marks that you get from playing PVP which lets you buy past cosmetics and also materia (which is needed for endgame raiding, buffs your gear, can be gotten from several other sources too it's just an alternative way of getting it).
3
u/Meekin934d ago
Just do Pvp to get he currency and reward track done.
10
u/SomeYesterday10754d ago
Gw2 pvp is much better. I played a good amount of pvp in ffxiv, mostly on my GNB. I enjoyed my time but not allowing at least duo Q in casual is a very missed opportunity. I have a few friends that want to play but are turned off to the idea of just Q up and hope u get to play with one another in CC.
The large BG is just an absolute cluster fuck.
2
u/Neriakied4d ago
i think gw2 pvp is really good i think i am just burnt from it right now and a mix of constantly hearing wvw is never gonna be fixed and spvp drama, interesting they only allow solo q in xiv tho, has it always been that way? i feel like they could change that pretty easily
1
u/SomeYesterday10754d ago
spvp drama
Oh, there's drama in CC and large-scale. Where there is pvp, there is drama.
interesting they only allow solo q in xiv tho, has it always been that way? i feel like they could change that pretty easily
It has always been that way to cater to the casuals. There was talk, over a year ago, about possibly changing it. The 5v5 also doesn't allow free chat. You can only use quick response hotkeys
8
u/StarGamerPT4d ago
Just a genuine question: if that's the aspect you enjoy, why don't you go to a more PvP focused MMORPG like Albion or play MOBAs instead?
6
u/Neriakied4d ago
i think its just a mix of preferring more keybinds but also being able to move around in the world honestly, jumping around the pvp vendor in wow and msging people or running around the pvp lobby in gw2... i thought albion was decent but didnt want to grind dungeons and lvl up every wep class to try them out
3
u/micmea14d ago
There really isn't a viable alternative to wow arena. The sentiment that arena is a sidegsme is mostly pushed by the fanbase. You can 100% spend most of your time on pvp as an end game.
3
u/not_waargh4d ago
MOBA combat is simplistic compared to wow/gw2 imo. There is definitely a lot of skill impression involved, but nothing near mmo level.
Also playing YOUR character is more appealing for me, rather than all those preset heroes/champions/whatever.
Albion is very close to a MOBA with its combat system, so my first point stands I guess. From my hundreds of hours experience it’s a team game first and foremost, you gotta play your simple role in a group. Solo PvP is questionable I’d say, no matter how hard they push their mists.
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u/I-SCREAM-EVERYTHING4d ago
I also hate isometric games. Clicking the move is so damn annoying to me. The only moba that I ever enjoyed was smite. 3rd person combat is wayyyyy more engaging then I’ve ever felt on LoL or dota
1
u/Neriakied4d ago
i think your first point is spot on for my mindset, something like wave management and gold efficiency in mobas has an extreme skill level but its not the same skill set as someone highly invested in mmo pvp
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u/not_waargh4d ago
Yeah, there are things you mentioned. Also keeping track of objectives around the map, how your teammates fare in their lane, what items your enemies build, etc, the list goes on for sure.
But I’ve got no interest in it. I want complicated combat of an mmo, cc/cds/skill rotations/mana management in prolonged fights. MOBAs have some of it, but it’s not the same.
I see this proposition brought up a lot “oh you want PvP? Play moba or counter strike”. It’s like your friend wants to eat some meat and you bring a salad. That’s not it.
1
u/mom_and_lala4d ago
MOBA combat is simplistic compared to wow/gw2 imo
Would you elaborate on this? And, out of curiosity, what is your level of experience with MOBAs?
3
u/not_waargh4d ago
As I mentioned further down the comment chain there’s a lot of skills you need to have in a moba - map awareness, objectives, rotating with the team, considering your items, your teammates and enemies items, fulfilling roles, positioning, etc.). The list goes and goes and goes on and on. But that is not combat.
Combat is what you do in a fight. In wow for example you have a set of damaging, defensive, movement and CC skills. You gotta manage them efficiently for a favorable outcome, you got options, you also want to keep in mind what your teammates can do. You probably know what I’m talking about.
In moba you have way less things to do, buttons to press in a fight itself. You have your 4 skills (in general, there’s outliers ofc), active items maybe, summoner spells if we take league for example. The skillset of a character in an mmo is way broader. And that’s what I like I guess.
My experience with mobas is pretty wast (safe estimate would be 5-6k hours in dota/hon/lol/dota2/hots throughout many-many years), but nothing to write home about (4,5k in dota in 2016, plat in league s2-4, diamond in hots (it’s an accident, game was already dead)).
2
u/mom_and_lala4d ago
Interesting. I'm not sure I'd personally draw the same line separating combat from those related elements, but I certainly get what you mean. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
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u/hiiamkay4d ago
You are smoking some good stuff if you think wow or any mmo for that matter has anywhere close to the skill expression of moba games lmao 😂
3
u/not_waargh4d ago
You’re smoking some good stuff if you think dota or any moba for that matter has anywhere close to the skill expression of mmo games lmao 😂
u/hiiamkay4d ago
Just the reaction required to play moba is already above anything any mmo games can offer. Like no offense mmo has its own draw and great points but like, mmo are not really known for the level of competitive that moba has.
5
u/not_waargh4d ago
Yeah, and shit like counter-strike requires even more rigorous muscle memory training. That’s beside the point tho.
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u/Neriakied4d ago
i think the expression is similar in both genres just very different how they are shown.. watching grubby play wc3 recently has shown a lot of similarities in principles and style between rts/moba and mmo in my opinion
1
u/hiiamkay4d ago
Yea dont get me wrong moba came from mmos, it just hyper focused on the skill part and competitiveness, so any half decent moba would greatly require more skill than mmos, it's not necessarily a bad thing.
1
u/nocompla4d ago
MOBAs evolved from the RTS genre, not MMOS.
1
u/hiiamkay4d ago
Ehhhh, the first mobas was made inside rts game, namely warcraft 3, but i wouldn't say it was evolved from that genre in general.
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u/[deleted]4d ago
[deleted]
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u/Neriakied4d ago
interesting, when you say no anticheat do you mean along the lines of scripting rotations and etc or like literal fly hacks and stat changing
3
u/Laenthis4d ago
Like you can actively hack the game easily. A lot of player mod the game, mostly for cosmetics and ERP purposes but you can also simply reduce the GCD lmao. This shit is insane.
1
u/ShadowDancerX4d ago
Speedhacks
3
u/jezvinFinal Fantasy XIV4d ago
I wouldn't put it in the same boat as GW2 or WoW PvP. It's a 5v5 push the cart type battle mode that last a few mins. I feel like it's just an extra for a mostly PvE game, the engine itself isn't even that great for PvP.
If you want to just pvp technically you don't really have to do a lot of PvE just get level 30 which does take a bit and if you want to have every class you need to do a lot more. Unless you just buy the skips then you need to do zero.
1
u/Neriakied4d ago
5v5 modes are pretty interesting as i am starting to prefer gw2 over wows 3v3 but i guess my problem is that i see wow and gw2 as decent pvp games but i hear the same sentiment inside them that pvp is a side mode and not worth spending time on.. i guess i am just trying to see if its the same doom talk in xiv or if its genuinely just a minigame
3
u/jezvinFinal Fantasy XIV4d ago
Ultimately the game engine will keep people away from taking the PvP serious imo. Animations don't line up with what is actually happening and players positions are not updated fast enough. A good example is the warrior has a pull ability and there are HP pick ups on the ground. If someone is low HP and running towards that HP pick up you need to be casting your pull on them well before they are anywhere close to that pick up or you will see the animation hit them and their character pulled towards you without getting close to the pick up, but on their screen they get to the pickup and grab it before getting pulled so they get the heal anyway. The whole game has this, but 99% of the time in PvE it isn't important that you see the players get to their safe spots just as long as they get there. In PvP you want to be able to react to player's movement.
1
u/Neriakied4d ago
ive heard a couple of things about the engine for pvp which is a shame but i dont think it would be enough to deter me from trying atleast as ive gotten used to runescapes tick system which i never thought was possible for me.. good info regardless tho thanks for the insight
1
u/jezvinFinal Fantasy XIV4d ago
Just know if you are not buying a skip and you don't plan to play one of the classes that you get at lvl 30 you have a lot of PvE to do, even skipping the story would still take like 100 hours to get to the end depending how dedicated you are. Some classes are locked behind higher levels, basically 20 lvls lower than the cap for the expansion they came out in. Also free trial can't do PvP.
Final note, I enjoy PvP I played every PvP game from DAOC, Darkfall, Albion online, GW2. FFXIV is the best mmo and my favorite but I don't really touch PvP here. But it is designed well, it is a bit fun when I did do it for cosmetics, but it's just not what the game is I guess.
2
u/CenciLovesYou4d ago
PvP in all of these MMOs will forever be a “side mode” because the main portion of the playerbase is PvE oriented
It’s going to be even worse in FFXIV though so don’t look there.
The best mmo for small scale PvP is and for the near future will continue to be WoW
2
u/StarGamerPT4d ago
Idk shit about WoW, but I know about GW2...and yhe, kinda is, kinda isn't...you can absolutely spend most of your time there (I know I did while grinding my legendary PvP armor and backpack), but it sure isn't the best aspect of the game....matchmaking sucks the higher/lower you go, there are bots, afkers, even outright cheaters...it can be a mess...
That being said, it is, imo, one of the best arenas in MMORPGs in theory...I love that it is purely skill based.
3
u/DiscussionLoose83904d ago
I don't think FFXIV will scratch the itch. It's an after thought in a community that otherwise has 0 drive to pvp, and mostly play a game for a single player arpg experience. You have already checked off the best 2 games with WoW, and GW2. I have played all 3 games.
3
u/Historical-Donkey6354d ago
since when gw2 its a pvp game, i know it has pvp but thats nowhere close to be an owpvp. if it was like Lineage 2 than i would put it on the same boat with gw2.
1
u/Neriakied4d ago
yeah not quite the same as something like daoc or warhammer but i think you should atleast consider gw2 as pvp with wvw and spvp being big parts of the game
3
u/ElJuanDiego4d ago
It seems you and I, OP, are cut with the same scissors, I too play only PVP, no PVE unless its absolutely necessary, I have played WoW and GW2 so I think I know what you are looking for, FFXIV used to have a REALLY fun pvp combat system, pretty similar to WoW as in fast paced and several options for rotations and CCs, I think it was the pre-patch before the release of Endwalker that they over simplified the PVP to the point its a braindead rotation that if you missclick once or miss one skill and you ruined the rotation.
Queue times last time I played were like 5min? I dont really remember but they werent crazy long, gearing, you dont need any gear, everyone is the same you just hop in and start fighting, avg skill or rating, you can aim for top 100 and get a really cool cosmetic or mount at the end of the season but thats the only reward there js for pvp, nothing else, really no incentive at all to do PVP, FFXIV its a PvE game and its amazing at it, if you wanna try the pvp go for it its different, its entertaining and theres a lot of classes to choose from, I stopped playing it cause WoW was/is superior in every aspect of the PvP.
Also, Id give Albion a chance, 6 skills is all you got, they depend on gear and occasion, skills and gear based, al thou if you play smart you can kill way better geared people, if you die you lose everything on the Red and Black Zone (where the end-game content is) and you can and will be ganked almost every time you are outside on the open, in a dungeon or just gathering/crafting, its really exciting and nerve wrecking some times, you can gank people, go for small group fights, outnumbered fights, Zergs vs Zergs, it is really really fun and highly recommended.
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u/Namba_Taern4d ago
PvP in FFXIV is just a small, fun little side activity for those who enjoy it.
Queue times, time it takes to get pvp geared, avg skill or ranking
There are two queues, Casual and Ranked. Casual has a queue time of 1-5 minutes. Ranked 5-20 minutes (almost instant when a new season starts)
Also, there is no grouping within these queues. You can make your own separate game against 5 other players, but you don't get and rewards or rank exp for it.
There is no gearing up. All jobs are set to the same level and stats (by their role). Think of it similar to a MOBA or fighting game setup.
If you are looking for an MMO with PvP progression, this isn't the game you are looking for.
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u/Neriakied4d ago
pretty concise info, the queue times arent too bad compared to what im used to but the solo q only definitely hurts, thx for the input
2
u/Flex_on_Youtube4d ago
I’ve tried getting into PvP in this game but the tab targeting is weird and I can’t customize it to tab over to the nearest target or the lowest health enemy. Feel like there should be an option for that in the game but I’ve never found it.
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u/AdMiserable37484d agoedited 4d ago
XIV PVP is really fun but not if you compare it to PVP in other games.
If you can take it at face value and not constantly compare it to other stuff you might enjoy it. If you're always comparing PVP to GW2, BDO or WOW it will feel really slow paced and janky.
Frontline is a bit of a chaotic free for all with rare tactics, the best way I can think of describing it is it's a RTS mode where every player is a minion but nobody is directing us to objectives.
Crystal Conflict is a push the cart tactical/ small team mode which can be more satisfying and you can feel like your individual effort is more impactful.
Just be aware you can't do PVP on the free trial, you need to have an active Subscription.
1
u/FanaticDamen4d ago
Long time ffxiv pvper here. The game oversimplifies the classes, while maintaining their identity. Although the game modes would be very fun, both large scale pvp and 5v5, it's held back by the games net code. Best way of describing it, it's like dark souls pvp, where everything happens out of time of each other. The netcode of ffxiv has been a rising topic as of late, and something that clearly holds the game back, which has been highlighted this expansion, and in pvp.
As for leveling. You get about half a level for Frontline roulette, then about 5% of a level per pvp round. Not bad exp, but not amazing either. It's not the games focal point, and they don't want people pvping for leveling, they want people pvping to pvp.
Aside that, the "battlepass" reward system is pretty cool, and they do more regularly update pvp now, including balance. But just remember, 99% of ffxiv players don't pvp. They're there for the story, and pve. And you will have to pve to get endgame AND even unlock pvp at the beginning.
1
u/Mister_Unicornio4d ago
A lot of people saying its bad and even tho its far from being great, i think it can be quite a lot of fun, its not the same level as GW2 where its a big part of the game and has a personal community just for it but more like a side content where you do it from time to time in case you enjoy it, i personal quite like it, it has some gamemodes and during some events you can do rival wings which is a special PvP/PvE mode that its quite good imo.
And it also has a daily rotation of maps with different goals and objectives that in my opinion adds a nice touch to the game.
Its still like a niche inside a mostly PvE game but it is by no means terrible as people put it, its all about the expectations you put into it, if people expect a full on pvp mode with a massive community, it wont happen, not even close but as a side thing its quite good imo.
The queue times arent that bad unless you play really late in all game modes imo, the gear doesnt really matter at all and you dont need any special equipment, jobs have a predefined set of skills that you are going to use that are based and inspired on the PvE skillset, ranking system is the normal system but like i said, it doesnt have a lot of people so expect to play against a lot of the same people each match and probably no people at all in higher ranks, ranked its just the smaller part in an already small part of the game..
To conclude, if pvp is the only thing that calls your attention than i would say you will probably hate it a lot
1
u/Might0fHeaven4d ago
Frontline roulette is the greatest xp source in the game so thats the primary reason people play it. The milestone rewards can be good too though
1
u/SnooHabits21064d ago
Best mmo PvP is new world but they killed their game lol
1
u/ShottsSeastone4d ago
if you’re a pvper ff14 is the last place i would go. ESO/WoW/Albion/TnL for pvp would be a better option.
1
u/Ashen10664d ago
ESO PvP is a steaming pile of garbage.
And you need to do hundreds of hours of dumb PvE to farm sets and be competitive.
1
u/bearvert2224d ago
crystalline conflict was them copying overwatch with push the payload as the only mode, but with maps that are smaller but with environmental hazards. its an mmo not fps but if you played both its apparent. the pvp kits are "hero shooter" versions of pve kits, simplified but actually pretty fun.
frontlines is that but they forgot to balance it for 24v24v24. not a fun time lately, but gives good exp once per day, and you can level doing it. good for jobs you dislike.
its ok as a side thing you do between content drops but annoys you if you take it seriously.
best mode no one plays, rival wings is a 24v24 moba, loads of fun but no exp bonus so no one tries it unless it shows up in mogtome bonus event
1
u/Ashen10664d ago
Just wait a month and try Throne and Liberty.
Is less P2W of what people says, no more then WOW/ESO or other games.
1
u/LightTheAbsol4d ago
I find the 5v5 payload push pretty fun. Yeah the netcode sucks and some parts are jank but you can reliably carry a game by yourself and make cool plays. The actual class design in pvp is also usually interesting. When you get the feel for the netcode I wouldn't say it flows smoothly but it is enjoyable.
It is 100% not a game to play for just the pvp.
To add to your list, no it's not dead.Gear does not matter (I'd see this as a positive personally).Class thematic in pvp is often executed in more fun ways then in pve due to shirking the need to maintain the holy trinity.
1
u/somebodxPvPer3d ago
the most fun ive ever had pvping on a mmo was on runescape but the wildy has died down from the multi pvp scene ..running up to randoms asking if they want to team up with you to go and wreck other people teamed up .going deeper into the wilderness not knowing if youll run into a smaller or bigger group was so much fun. you could do it at any lvl aswell. you might still be able to but im not sure how active it is .
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u/painstream3d ago
I find XIV's pvp to be pretty infuriating. It's tab-targeted, but most of the abilities are pretty short-range, and it's hard to get the right target in a huge melee.
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u/BriefImplement98433d agoedited 3d ago
The worst pvp in the genre. Every class is gutted to the absolute maximum and everyone is the same. You cant type either. The devs think the players are too stupid/soft to pvp.
1
u/salle1323d ago
FF PvP lol.
1
u/Mizaru843d ago
Signup for the trial as u can progress really far with it. Then u play through and u will realise that the combat system is absolutely not suitable for PVP at all......
Go try, trial is free
u/hairspinner4d ago
I loved PvP in WoW.. anyway, PvP in FFXIV is shit. I have played the game for last 3 years and played maybe 4hrs of PvP altogether.. however, I know there are people who enjoy that shit show.
u/Sea-salt_ice_cream4d ago
It pales in comparison to WoW PvP. I went back to WoW, 14 PvP didn’t satisfy nothing.
u/hoodratchic4d ago
DO NOT PLAY FF FOR PVP
u/lan600004d ago
queue times for ranked are limited and often only last 1-2 hours
no gear required. Hit level 30 and finish MSQ to a certain point so you advance your job.
server delays in 14 makes pvp more of a guessing game than a reactionary one.
skill level in pvp is in the gutter which would make sense since a lot of dedicated pvpers quit
horrible exclusive rewards for rank tiers
there's some levels of skill expression between good pvpers and bad ones, but that is mostly due to player instinct and not so much mechanical prowess.
Overall, pvp is technically alive, albeit barely, and the game mode can be fun when enough players queue up to make it pop. It is definitely not on the level of complexity or enjoyment than GW2 pvp though, and it is worlds apart from wow arena.
-1
u/i_dont_wanna_sign_up4d ago
Mmorpgs in general will never have a really good and balanced pvp mode. Doesn't mean you can't have fun in them.
I enjoy FFXIV's main pvp mode, Crystalline Conflict. While each class has been simplified to very few buttons, they also have pretty distinct kits that are very different from their PvE versions, and each has a very powerful ultimate ability.
While skill ceiling is not that high, there are still a good number of things to learn. Knowing each classes' rotations helps a lot in knowing when to interrupt them or use guard, a universal skill that functions as a temporary near-invuln. It's also important to learn how to coordinate bursts with your team or peel for allies that are hurt.
-1
u/Awkward_Tax_1484d ago
Imagine being a 100 % pvp player , but playing mainly pve mmorpg ( wow , gw2 etc..) have you think about trying an actual pvp mmorpg ( eve , mortal , albion , ultima outland etc... ) ?
